CHICAGO — Donald Trump made a combative appearance Wednesday at a conference of Black journalists during a heated question-and-answer session that at times focused squarely on the race of Vice President Kamala Harris.
Trump claimed that he did not know until a few years ago that Harris, who is Indian American and Black, was Black. He then baselessly suggested that she had decided to “turn Black” only recently for political gain.
“I’ve known her a long time, indirectly,” Trump said. “And she was always of Indian heritage, and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I did not know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black, and now she wants to be known as Black.”
“I respect either one,” he added, “but she obviously doesn’t, because she was Indian all the way, and then all of a sudden, she made a turn and … she became Black. … Somebody should look into that, too.”
“Is she Indian or is she Black?” he asked.
ABC News’ Rachel Scott, one of the three moderators on the National Association of Black Journalists panel, pointed out that Harris, the de-facto Democratic nominee for president, attended Howard University, a historically Black college. Trump did not directly respond.
The exchange came after Scott asked about an increasing number of Republicans saying that Harris is a “DEI hire,” a term referring to workplace policies promoting “diversity, equity and inclusion.” It is being used more and more by some on the right to discredit people of color with opposing political views.
Trump finally said he was “not sure” whether he thought Harris was a DEI hire.
Harris’ campaign called Trump’s showing at the NABJ event an “absolute disaster.”
“This is who he is,” a campaign spokesperson said.
Harris herself addressed the controversy Wednesday night in Houston, at an event for the historically Black sorority Sigma Gamma Rho.
“It was the same old show — the divisiveness and the disrespect,” Harris said. “And let me just say the American people deserve better. The American people deserve better.”
Harris was unable to attend the group’s annual convention, but the two sides are working on a time in the future to meet.
When NBC News reached out to the Trump campaign for a response to the almost immediate backlash to his comments about Harris’ race, communications director Steven Cheung replied, “Backlash from the truth?”
“These people must be deranged,” he said.
A source familiar with conversations between NABJ leadership and the Trump campaign told NBC News that part of the initial tension had to do with the idea that he felt blindsided by NABJ’s partnership with PolitiFact to fact-check the exchange in real time.
Trump’s team found out after opening remarks by an ABC journalist that referenced the fact check were leaked, the source said.
A member of NABJ’s leadership team told the campaign, “I don’t know anything about that’’ when confronted by Trump’s team about the live fact check, the source said.
Trump’s campaign was assured that the NABJ would accommodate any requests it had, which included format, according to the source.
An NABJ spokesperson did not respond to a request seeking comment.
During the White House press briefing on Wednesday, which was happening at the same time as the NABJ event, NBC News read Trump’s comments to White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre and asked her to respond.
“As a person of color — as a Black woman who is in this position that is standing before you at this podium, behind this lectern — what he just said, what you just read out to me is repulsive. It’s insulting. And you know, no one has any right to tell someone who they are, how they identify. That is no one’s right,” she said.
A source close to Harris also said Trump’s comments were “painful.”
“It’s simply a lie and easily disproved,” this person added. “She went to Howard for Christ sake! She’s an AKA.”
While a student at Howard, Harris was a member of the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, a historically Black organization.
Trump was also asked to clarify his comments during the June presidential debate, when he said immigrants were coming to the United States and taking “Black jobs.”
“A Black job is anybody that has a job,” he said. “That’s what it is. Anybody that has — they’re taking the employment away from Black people. They’re coming in, and they’re coming in, they’re invading.”
There was a concerted effort put forward by Trump’s campaign in early 2024 to say it was going to push hard to win over more Black voters. The 12% he won in 2020 was the highest percentage earned by a Republican candidate for president in modern times, and the campaign was aiming to get around 20% in November. Recent NBC News polling had Trump at 12% with Black voters, in a survey that was taken before President Joe Biden dropped out of the race and Harris replaced him as the presumptive Democratic nominee.
In the days leading up to the NABJ event, there was a whirlwind of controversy from within the organization about whether Trump should have even been invited. Trump in the past has referred to a Black prosecutor as an “animal,” told Black Democratic members of Congress to “go back” to where they came from and referred to Black female journalists as “stupid,” “loser” and “nasty” — comments that in 2019 drew condemnation from NABJ.
Several of the group’s members expressed their opposition to his invitation on social media, and NABJ co-chair Karen Attiah stepped down in apparent reaction to the Trump invite.
“While my decision was influenced by a variety of factors, I was not involved or consulted with in any way with the decision to platform Trump in such a format,” Attiah, a Washington Post columnist, wrote on social media.
Tia Mitchell, the Washington correspondent for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution and the event’s co-chair, defended the Trump invite on social media.
“Some of yall need to take a step back and ask why you’re questioning why a group of JOURNALISTS wants to ask former and possibly future President Trump questions,” she said.
Malik Mitchell, a high school sports reporter for North Metro TV in Minnesota who attended the convention, said that he was hearing from relatives about the controversy.
“Coming into the hotel this morning, my family was sending me articles about Trump being here and already reacting,” he said. “I knew it was probably going to be a big fuss.”
He said the event is about “Black excellence” and does not think Trump “fits in that bubble.”
“It’s like if there is someone who has disrespected you on the street, and all of a sudden you’re inviting them for dinner,” he said. “That’s how I see it.”
Amya Henry, a recent graduate of Howard University who also attended, said she wanted to “see for herself” what Trump’s comments would be.
“I think it went well,” Henry said. “At first I was a little skeptical … but you know, it was just an interesting time.”
Trump did little to turn down the heat as the question-and-answer session began, responding to Scott’s question about why Black voters should trust him by calling the delivery of the question “nasty.”
“I don’t think I have ever been asked a question in such a horrible manner,” Trump said.
He also said that he was invited under “false pretenses” because his Democratic opponent was not also in attendance and took several swipes at Scott and ABC News throughout the event. Trump’s feud with ABC News has been building in recent weeks because he is unhappy the network is scheduled to host the next presidential debate.
Trump directly sparred with Scott for most of the event, and at one point appeared to reach over and grab her water bottle to tighten the cap.
After the initial back-and-forth with Scott, Trump went on to defend his record with Black voters.
“I think it was a very nasty question,” Trump said. “I have been the best president for the Black population since Abraham Lincoln.”
Scott followed up by asking about President Lyndon Johnson signing the Voting Rights Act of 1965, but Trump did not directly respond.
Trump was also asked about his running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance, who has had a rocky rollout after new scrutiny on past comments about “childless cat ladies,” a term Vance used to question the leadership ability of people, mostly women, who choose to not have children.
Trump said that the moderators would have to “ask” Vance directly but shared his interpretation of the comments that have come to define Vance since he has become Trump’s running mate.
“What he is saying is that the family experience is an important thing, a very good thing,” Trump said.
In the same breath, he downplayed Vance’s political importance.
“Historically, the vice president in terms of the election does not have any impact,” Trump said. “You have 2-3 days where there is a lot of commotion … and then that dies down and it’s about the presidential pick.”
Vance, for his part, told reporters Wednesday evening on the tarmac at the Phoenix airport that Trump’s appearance at NABJ showed “one of the good things about him, the president doesn’t do scripted BS stuff.”
“He actually goes into hostile audiences,” Vance continued. “He answers tough questions. He pushes back against him, but he actually answers them and how nice it is to have an American leader who’s not afraid to go into hostile places and actually answer some tough questions.”
Vance went on to criticize Harris as a “chameleon,” saying she’s “flip-flopped on every issue.”
“I think he pointed out the fundamental chameleon like nature of Kamala Harris,” Vance continued. “I mean, you guys saw yesterday she was in Georgia, and she put on a southern accent for a Georgia audience.”
Asked if Vance questions whether Harris is Black, he responded, “What I question is why she presents a different posture, regardless, depending on which audience that she’s in front of, she’ll say one thing to one audience to say another thing to another audience to say something totally different to another audience.”
Trump was also asked about comments he made during a Wisconsin rally in May about giving police “immunity from prosecution.”
Kadia Goba, a journalist from Semafor, questioned Trump about the issue in relation to a recent case in Illinois, where Sonya Massey, a Black woman, was shot and killed by police after she called 911. The officer, Sean Grayson, has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a firearm, and official misconduct.
Trump seemed to backtrack and say that police should not get blanket immunity, and that the Chicago shooting did “not look good to me.”
“There is a big difference between being a bad person and making an innocent mistake,” Trump said. “But if someone made an innocent mistake, I would want to help that person.”
He went on to say there should be immunity for cops when it’s a “close call and very dangerous.”
Matt Dixon reported from Tallahassee, Fla.; Yamiche Alcindor and Michelle Garcia reported from Chicago.